Shiur 3: 4a/4b

Another Cool Mentionable:
The Whole Sukkah Misnayos, Quickly Reviewed
http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/mishna/archives/sukka.htm

From Ohr.edu (Ohr Somayach)
Upwards and Sideways

A succah must have at least three walls. Certain laws were given at Sinai to Moshe, even though they were not recorded in the Torah, which allow us to stretch the definition of a wall. One of these is the concept of "gud asik" which enables us to see as reality an imaginary, upward extension of an existing wall.

Two examples of this are mentioned: 1) The succah has the required number of walls of the required minimum height. However, they do not reach up to the schach (roofing) which is supported by tall poles. We therefore apply "gud asik" and view the walls as extending upward and reaching the schach. 2) Four poles are placed on the corners of a roof and upon them the schach is placed. There are no visible walls supporting the schach, but (according to one opinion) by applying "gud asik" we extend the walls of the house upward so that they form the necessary walls.

Both of these cases are cited in Shulchan Aruch. Regarding the first case, the halachic authorities point out that "gud asik" applies even if there is a sideways gap between the (imaginary) upward extension and the schach, provided this gap is less than three tefachim (handbreaths). This is made possible by applying another one of those aforementioned oral laws, called "lavud," which allows us to view any gap of less than three tefachim as non-existent. (Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 630:9)

Regarding the second case, however, "gud asik" applies only if the poles in question are at the very edge of the roof. If they are not at the very edge, even if they are less than three tefachim away, we cannot "come to the rescue" with "lavud," and such a succah is invalid. (See Mishna Berura 630:31)

What is the difference?...

Entire Article: http://ohr.edu/yhiy/article.php/312

Some More From Alfasi.blogspot.com
http://alfasi.blogspot.com/2006/09/rif-succah-1b-succah-2b-continues-3b.html

From Dafnote:
Sukkah 4 Highlights: http://dafnotes.blogspot.com/2006/09/daf-yomi-sukkah-4-highlights_06.html

Less than Ten

Sfas Emes quotes from the sefer Beis Yisroel that asks on the fact that the Gemora cites sources from the Torah that a sukkah is invalid if it's less than ten tefachim. Shouldn't it be passul because one cannot dwell comfortably in such a sukkah? The Sfas Emes answers that the possuk is needed for a case where the schach is higher than ten, but the walls are not. If not for the passuk, this would be valid for the schach is higher than ten.

The Brisker Rav states (similar to the Sfas Emes) that there are two aspects of this halacha. There is a requirement that the walls must be at least ten tefachim and that the sukkah must be one where a person can dwell comfortably. A difference would be in a case where one would rest his sukkah on bedposts. The sukkah has walls that are ten tefachim, however it would be passul for the bed inside the sukkah creates that one cannot live comfortably there.

Original Post: http://dafnotes.blogspot.com/2006/09/daf-yomi-sukkah-4-less-than-ten.html

Bent Walls

If a sukkah is higher than twenty amos and a platform is built next to three walls of the sukkah, this will reduce the size of the sukkah and it will be valid. If the platform is built less than four amos away from the walls, it will still be kosher due to the principle of dofan akumah.
...More on Dofan Akumah

There are two explanations in the Rishonim as to the mechanics of dofan akumah...

Entire Post: http://dafnotes.blogspot.com/2006/09/daf-yomi-sukkah-4-bent-walls.html

Sitting or Standing

If the sukkah is higher than ten tefachim and some of the leaves from the schach hang down within ten tefachim and those leaves by itself would not have more shade than sun, there is an argument if the sukkah is kosher or not. Rava maintains that it is not valid for this is considered a dirah seruchah.

The Reshash asks how can a sukkah which is precisely ten tefachim high be valid, the height of a regular person is eighteen tefachim? A person will not be able to stand straight in this sukkah and it will be extremely uncomfortable?...

Entire Post: http://dafnotes.blogspot.com/2006/09/daf-yomi-sukkah-4-sitting-or-standing.html

Thoughts from the Aleph Society on Sukkah 4a-4b: http://www.steinsaltz.org/dynamic/DafYomi_details.asp?Id=373
Diagram as described in Gemara: http://www.steinsaltz.org/dynamic/content.asp?id=124
See Diagrams of the various scenarios on the the first link, very good...
2a-5b On OU, same summary as the Aleph Society
http://www.ou.org/shabbat_shalom/article/masechet_sukkah25/

Question and Answers
Why no protective fence? http://www.mail-archive.com/daf-discuss@shemayisrael.co.il/msg01117.html
Itztava: http://www.mail-archive.com/daf-discuss@shemayisrael.co.il/msg01118.html